Is there evidence of God’s hand in creation?
While my faith is not based on scientific discovery, I find evidence of God’s creation interesting. I also find it interesting to note how strongly some anti-theists work to discredit evidence of God.
Just one of the evidences, often called the “fine-tuned universe” goes something like this: against incredible odds, the numbers in basic physics are exactly what they need to be for life. They have to be so precisely what they are for life that it stands credulity on its head to say that it happened just by chance. The ball had been thrown into the anti-theists court. Discussion of the latest physics of the matter was avoided by anti-theists, at least until the multiverse theory came along.
The multiverse theory threw the ball back into the theists’ court. It provided a refutation to the fine-tuned universe. The rebuff at that time was basically this: There are so many plausible variations in a multiverse that at least one fine-tuned universe would be expected. Now, talk of the latest science was in fashion again among anti-theists. The ball has been shot back to the theists’ court. Then, a new paper was published following the death of Stephen Hawking and the ball had been returned.
The last published paper by Stephen Hawking and Thomas Hertog says if a multiverse exists, it would not have an infinite number of physical properties. If the infinite number of possible physical properties goes away, then the multiverse theory is not the kill shot to the fine-tuned universe as previously thought.
Throughout all of this fuss about fine tuning, and other evidences of God, I find it amazing how some anti-theists accept or reject the physical evidence as an indicator of God based on whose court the ball happens to be in at the time. At the end of the day, a relationship with God has nothing to do with the latest scientific discovery. It has everything to do with our acceptance or rejection of God and his precious gift of salvation.
Have you accepted his gift?
Texas Gospel Canada Southern Gospel Radio 
“At the end of the day, a relationship with God has nothing to do with the latest scientific discovery. It has everything to do with our acceptance or rejection of God and his precious gift of salvation.” Your relationship with anything depends on how your brain works. If you along with your brain (mind) accept the God inspired dream of being special, that is the dreamed of gift of salvation, which is a delusion.
LikeLike
Do you have evidence it is a delusion?
LikeLike
Common sense tells a person all they need to know about what is real. All of this God stuff happens in the only place it can, inside of the believers mind.
LikeLike
Logic and common sense are not the same thing ref: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Common_sense
LikeLike
Too, what evidence do you have to back your claims?
LikeLike
Your first sentence: “While my faith is not based on scientific discovery, I find evidence of God’s creation interesting. I also find it interesting to note how strongly some anti-theists work to discredit evidence of God.” What is your evidence? Just because the earth exists, you think God did it? That is not evidence, that is imagination. What evidence is there to discredit? A dream is not evidence, it’s a dream!
LikeLike
You said, “What is your evidence? Just because the earth exists, you think God did it?”
My response: Of course not, that is your assumption concerning my reasoning.
You ask, “What evidence is there to discredit?”
My response: Rather than go down a lot of rabbit trails, what about the aforementioned fine-tuned argument.
You said, “A dream is not evidence, it’s a dream!”
My response: I agree that a dream is not evidence. But I have not presented a dream as evidence. That is your strawman. Respectfully, you are the one making a claim in this conversation. You did not take the agnostic position (that one doesn’t know if there is a creator or not); you stated that belief in God is a delusion. So, before we proceed further, do you have evidence for your claim?
LikeLike
My primary claim is that humans are born and they die, forever. Because there is no resurrection and no afterlife, there is no God or need for one. Believers are deluded in believing that humans are special and that they have two lives instead of just one.
LikeLike
I understand. Saying that believers are deluded is a claim. Saying there is no resurrection is a claim. Saying there is no God is a claim. Saying there is no need for God is a claim. Do you have any evidence for one or more of these claims?
LikeLike
That’s pretty much it. I win by lack of evidence that something is not there. Now your job is to prove me wrong. You dream of a resurrection that can never happen. What do you think happens to the soul of a mortal condemned to Hell?
LikeLike
If you had said you think Christians are deluded; you would not have made a claim. If you said Christians are probably deluded, you would only be stating a hunch. Neither are an expression of faith. But you said Christians are deluded. You said there is no God, not simply that you do not believe in God. This crosses the line from stating an idea to making a claim. If you have no proof of your claim, then it is only your idea. If you believe there is no God and cannot prove there is no God, then this is your faith.
You said, “That’s pretty much it. I win by lack of evidence that something is not there.” To say you are right because someone else cannot prove you wrong is called an argument from ignorance; it is a logical fallacy (more on this found here: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/56/Argument-from-Ignorance)
Respectfully, it is not my job to prove your claim wrong. If you make a claim, you bear the responsibility of proving the claim.
You have not proven that the resurrection of Jesus is a dream. You may not believe it, it may not be your faith, but you cannot logically say you know it to be a dream without evidence.
So, the ball is back in your court.
LikeLike
I don’t have to prove anything. It seems you get a big kick out of playing with words. I’m not impressed.
LikeLike
You said: I don’t have to prove anything.
My response: You are correct. You don’t. But until then, your claim is only a claim.
You said: It seems you get a big kick out of playing with words.
My response: No, not at all. Words are what they are.
You said: I’m not impressed.
My response: OK, I was not trying to impress you. I was only responding to your unsupported claim. Respectfully, I did not approach you, you made a comment on this page to which I responded.
I’m sure you are a very nice person, but for some reason seem to have an aggression toward people like me simply because we follow Jesus.
I wish you well.
David
LikeLike
Yes, we are all human. I have a few years behind me and have given a bit of thought about what happens next. This religion thing is all about death and the dream of escaping it. The monotheists believe they are special and the “chosen” ones. it is an almost perfect con job. Just because we want something to be true doesn’t make it so. Life is a matter of luck and we are lucky to be alive.
LikeLike
You say religion is all about death and the dream of escaping it. No, it is about serving God.
Again, your statement that someone believes in God “just because we want something to be true” is a strawman. Oddly enough, your statement is not true simply because you want it to be true, you must demonstrate it to be valid or it is simply your hunch.
You claim life is a matter of luck and we are lucky to be alive. OK, what evidence do you have for this and your previous claims?
LikeLike
So, if you desire to be a slave, go for it. You have been conned into believing that “believers” are special, blessed, the chosen. Grow up and take responsibility for your life. There is only one per each. GROG
LikeLike
You say, “So, if you desire to be a slave, go for it.”
I made no claim to be a slave. That is a strawman position if no one has claimed to be a slave.
You say, “You have been conned into believing that “believers” are special, blessed, the chosen.”
I have been conned by no one. I choose to accept the gift of Salvation given to anyone who asks of God.
You say, “Grow up and take responsibility for your life. There is only one per each. ”
I take responsibility for my own actions. You’re use of the phrase “grow up” appears to be an attempt to illicit an emotional response. Do you have an example of an action for which I or any other Christian does not take responsibility?
LikeLike
As you said, religion is about serving God. That is what slaves do, serve their masters. Christians lie to their children. They don’t and can’t know what happens after death, but parents tell their kids they do know. Did your parents teach you about God and heaven, or maybe you got conned by a door knocker. Either way, it’s sad having to be told how to to live one’s life. The most disturbing thing about the monotheists is that they pray for the end of humanity, for the second coming, the end of the world. It’s a death cult! GROG
LikeLike
You say, “As you said, religion is about serving God. That is what slaves do, serve their masters. “
You seem to assume that a slave has a say-so. I can serve God or choose to reject him; therefore, I am not a slave as you seem to imply.
You say, “Christians lie to their children. They don’t and can’t know what happens after death, but parents tell their kids they do know. “
Actually, I tell my kids about my faith. They are adults now. The oldest is an atheist, the others are followers of God. Why would you assume I lie to them?
You say, “Did your parents teach you about God and heaven, or maybe you got conned by a door knocker.”
Again, you are using loaded language. Is there a reason for this? To answer your question, my parents did share their faith to me and told me it is my decision to make, not theirs, if I accept or reject God.
You say, “ Either way, it’s sad having to be told how to to live one’s life. “
That’s an odd statement from someone telling Christians how they should live.
You say, “The most disturbing thing about the monotheists is that they pray for the end of humanity, for the second coming, the end of the world. It’s a death cult! GROG”
That’s your opinion. I do not share it.
Peace.
LikeLike
You say, “…, I can serve God or choose to reject him:…” I think you are fooling yourself. Just try to reject God. You can’t do it. I believe your delusion is so firmly fixated on the glories of God you cannot imagine being without your imaginary friend. GROG
LikeLike
You say, “I think you are fooling yourself. Just try to reject God. You can’t do it.”
That’s an interesting statement of your faith, or do you have proof of that statement?
You say, “I believe your delusion is so firmly fixated on the glories of God you cannot imagine being without your imaginary friend. GROG”
You have stated that God is imaginary and a delusion. Again, is this a statement of your faith or do you have proof of this statement? You have gone beyond saying, “I don’t know,” therefore, you are making a claim. Do you have proof of this claim or is this your faith?
LikeLike